The Sims 3 Immortal Dynasty Challenge

[Schipperke]

Then the "rule" about not changing their appearance, or am I getting that wrong?  I like to make my Sims attractive and to change their clothes and hair styles.  Does this mean I can't use the dresser to do this, or just not get them a make over at the salon? 

And why on earth can't you go to the salon for a full treatment or whatever since it relaxes you and gives all kinds of good moodlets?  How is that going to give anyone an unfair advantage?  Isn't it more of an unfair advantage to say "marry so and so because they have such and such goodies/skills"? 

Joria, there is no rule about changing your sims' appearance.  The rule is against makeovers, as there have been some instances of sims' ages being reset following a makeover.

As for going to the salon - I assume you mean the Day Spa - there is no rule against that. 

As for your other concerns, someone else will need to respond to those.  All I can add is that I am having a lot of fun with my Dynasty and I hope you will give it a try!

[Metropolis Man]

At first I was all gung ho on this challenge but it has gotten increasingly confusing as time has gone on.  I mean, really?  How many pages on max/Supermax and Black Ops?

Joria, don't feel like you have to read 40 pages of this thread to get a grasp on things. Simply reading the rule set and winging it should be fine. If you're confused about any rules, that's what we're here for.

Then the "rule" about not changing their appearance, or am I getting that wrong?  I like to make my Sims attractive and to change their clothes and hair styles.  Does this mean I can't use the dresser to do this, or just not get them a make over at the salon?

I believe it was Salty that confirmed that there's chance that a makeover can increase one's lifespan in the same fashion as getting a tattoo. Intentionally increasing the lifespan of any household member is not allowed. It's all part of the strategy — you only have a short period of time to complete all of the requirements. Getting a few makeovers would make things a lot easier for someone. 

And why on earth can't you go to the salon for a full treatment or whatever since it relaxes you and gives all kinds of good moodlets?  How is that going to give anyone an unfair advantage?

If you're talking about the Spa treatments and vacations, those are not banned at all.

While I'm on the subject of who to marry, I've peppered all three hoods with Sims I've created and Sims I've liked from various hoods.  So, for instance, Agnes can also now be found in my Twinbrook.  I'm assuming this would make her unavailable for marriage in that town.  Right?

Of course. You're altering a stock neighborhood which is strictly prohibited. You have to start with a virgin town.

Oh, yeah, houses.  So houses previously made by moi would also not be allowed, right?

Same answer as above.

[Kilwala]

I just asked another question on my story thread.  Maybe it should go here, but I don't know how to move it.  

My question was basically whether or not it is enough to play the challenge without CC, or do you actually have to delete it from your system?  I think it's an important question, because if it has to be deleted from your system it will disqualify a lot of people from playing ranked challenges too.

I have this same question since the issue came up with my dynasty too.  

And I guess I'm also wondering...why is CC disqualified exactly?  I guess I can understand the banning of core game mods that alter the difficulty of a game, but if one is just using an outfit or a hairstyle that doesn't alter difficulty at all...isn't that just something visual and not any sort of game advantage?  And I'm sure then this means no custom skintones or eyes or hairstyles or outfits or any of that?  It just seems a bit odd to me that if we can already design our sims to look any way we like (instead of having to randomize them or some such) with the content already in the game, that custom content that merely alters more ways to design how our sims look would be banned.  Sorry if I sound rude; it's certainly not my intent.  

Contemplating if I want to restart my dynasty so I can make the hall of fame in this case  oh, and a double check: are any store items (since they're "official") okay then?  What about the Dr. Pepper promotional items?  

Edit: I guess in case "some" CC is deemed okay, I'll just list all that I'm using, to double check what's okay and what isn't (it may all be banned, but I guess I'm not certain if the absolute ruling has been made yet, due to discussion over in simfulicious' thread).  
In the Enmei Dynasty, my sims have been made with custom eye replacements and custom skintones.  They also use CC blush, lipstick, eyeshadow, hairstyles, and clothing.  None of these alter game difficulty.

My thanks for your response.

[Metropolis Man]

I have this same question since the issue came up with my dynasty too.  

And I guess I'm also wondering...why is CC disqualified exactly?  I guess I can understand the banning of core game mods that alter the difficulty of a game, but if one is just using an outfit or a hairstyle that doesn't alter difficulty at all...isn't that just something visual and not any sort of game advantage?  And I'm sure then this means no custom skintones or eyes or hairstyles or outfits or any of that?  It just seems a bit odd to me that if we can already design our sims to look any way we like (instead of having to randomize them or some such) with the content already in the game, that custom content that merely alters more ways to design how our sims look would be banned.  Sorry if I sound rude; it's certainly not my intent.  

Contemplating if I want to restart my dynasty so I can make the hall of fame in this case  oh, and a double check: are any store items (since they're "official") okay then?  What about the Dr. Pepper promotional items?  

You're not being rude at all and have every right to understand our stand on CC. I'm very leery of allowing it because it's been my stand since January in ALL challenges to not allow any CC and mods of any kind. Players know this. This is not a news flash. CC has been known to be game breakers and that's something I'm trying to avoid. So, if I allow CC in the Dynasty, then how do I resolve all of the multitudes of players that are simultaneously playing in challenges at the same time with 0 CC? There has to be consistency across the board with this. As of now, CC of any kind is not allowed in the Dynasty. All of the Tournament challenges set the precedent and players have been playing without CC in challenges for 9 months. 2011 may be a different stituation. I can see myself lightening up on the rule with the understanding that players play at their own risk and I would need to be informed ahead of time of what mod was being used so i could sign off on it.

EDIT: Incidentally, in case you're wondering if you need to restart — you don't. That's ridiculous. I'm just asking you to remove all CC from your system for this Dynasty. That's my ruling for now. I still have not heard back from Pam. If she feels strongly on allowing it, then I very well may change my mind.

[Kilwala]

Okay, that makes sense.  Thanks Metro.  I haven't participated in past challenges so I guess wasn't aware.  I'll probably start a new dynasty then without the CC.  I understand that CC is certainly not necessary for me to play (I just like looking at pretty sims, and I've never had game crashes), so I'll go ahead and play without it.  If you decide to change this rule with a "play at your own risk" stance, please do let us know.  

Edit: I see your edit now, and I thank you for saying I do not need to restart (it's a relief, as I was close to two immortals).   Removing the CC is no problem then.  I still may delay my playing, though, as I've been ill these past couple days, my birthday is tomorrow, and I'm attending a gaming convention this weekend, so if Pam has a different ruling, I can adjust accordingly.  Thanks again.

[Metropolis Man]

Happy Birthday, Kilwala! Yeah, Pam needs to weigh in on this as it's clearly affecting numerous players. I don't want to be the bad guy here, everyone. I want to keep the peace and make as many players happy as I can while still looking at the big picture.

[simfulicious]

I have deleted all my cc and will start over too.  I am sorry for any problems I have caused, and for any illwill that may have resulted.    Speaking for myself,though, when I see that your challenge rules state "no cheats or modifications"  I do not (did not) consider cc as a mod.  Twinmum stated the same thing on my story thread.  I only say this because I do feel that it does need to be made clearer because some people consider cc and mods to be two different things.

[Kilwala]

Happy Birthday, Kilwala!

Thank you!

Speaking for myself,though, when I see that your challenge rules state "no cheats or modifications"  I do not (did not) consider cc as a mod.  Twinmum stated the same thing on my story thread.  I only say this because I do feel that it does need to be made clearer because some people consider cc and mods to be two different things.

I considered them different too, so it's not just you.  Changing things around will be all right though!

[Metropolis Man]

I have deleted all my cc and will start over too.  I am sorry for any problems I have caused, and for any illwill that may have resulted.

Oh, my gosh, no simfulicious. No ill will is felt at all. You did absolutely nothing wrong and I appreciate you being honest. Please do not restart. There is absolutely no reason for you to lose all of that time you have already invested.

Speaking for myself,though, when I see that your challenge rules state "no cheats or modifications"  I do not (did not) consider cc as a mod.

Well, you're modifying hair styles right? But, I can see your point (and Twinmum's).

I only say this because I do feel that it does need to be made clearer because some people consider cc and mods to be two different things.

Fair enough. I will make things more clear in the rules. Look for an edit in the next few minutes.

-------

EDIT: Okay, everyone. I added the ruling. Look under Setting Up Your Dynasty. There should be no confusion now. But, as I mentioned, I'll probably lighten up on this whole issue for the 2011 Tournament and cover it in the global rule set that I intend on producing. But, this year, there needs to be consistency with existing challenges and the Dynasty.

[simfulicious]

It's ok Metro, I have already started over, and I plan on doing only one dynasty this time.  I have changed themes, as well.  Look for my new story soon, though it may be slow going as my mother is coming to town this Friday and my sim time is about to shrink while she's here.

[Twinmum]

So Metro, is it enough to just not use the CC or do we need to treat it like mods and remove it? I did say that I would think twice if I had to remove it each time I switched between challenge games and casual games, but I got to thinking how much I play and how much of that time is devoted to various challenge games and I figure I won't be doing much switching lol.

Norma

[Metropolis Man]

So Metro, is it enough to just not use the CC or do we need to treat it like mods and remove it?

Oh, just making the decision to not use it is fine with me. I trust everyone to not use custom content. So, if it's on your system, just make the decision to not use it.

[Joria]

To clarify, Metro, when you say no CC I am assuming you mean no third party CC?  Stuff bought from the EA store is allowable?  This is the way it has been in other challenges.  No third party, (i.e. exchange items), but bought from EA store or freebies, such as the Dr. Pepper or Prius items, or items garnered free from EA are acceptable.  Right?

Thanks so much for clarifying the spa thing.  I WAS thinking specifically of the basic spa treatments so glad I'll be able to use them and my dresser.

Since I just finished my Da Vinci quest, I definitely am going to give this a shot.  Practice first and then jump in.  I'm not very good at strategy and am horrible at record keeping but will give it a good shot as I think that will be one of the more challenging, and learning, aspects of it.  And it's a relaxed challenge!! YAYYY!

[Metropolis Man]

To clarify, Metro, when you say no CC I am assuming you mean no third party CC?  Stuff bought from the EA store is allowable?  This is the way it has been in other challenges.  No third party, (i.e. exchange items), but bought from EA store or freebies, such as the Dr. Pepper or Prius items, or items garnered free from EA are acceptable.  Right?

Definitely. Any official EA stuff is legit to use. And when I say CC, that's synonymous with anything not created by EA.

[LlamaMama]

Except patterns, right? We can use patterns from the exchange to vary the fabric and wallcovering selection? Those have been used in at least a couple of dynasties I've seen.

[Pam]

Items that are downloaded from the Exchange are supposed to be safe.  They aren't considered mods or third party CC until there's something bad found, like the nude clothing and the doll.  A lot of the patterns are made with the new Create A Pattern tool, so I don't have a problem with that sort of thing.  We advise caution when downloading from the Exchange because of the potential problems, but it's not banned at all.

[Pam]

I just want to say to anyone who is worried or hesitant to play this challenge because of all the restrictions and requirements that I hope you'll give it a shot.  My second generation has just aged to young adult and I feel like the whole challenge is well under control.  It was hard at the start because there was very little money, but even then it worked out alright and my founder looked for creative ways to keep herself fed and sleeping in a bed.  My strategy has been to mostly only plan one generation at a time.  Eight generations of planning all at once is overwhelming, but if you just plan pieces of it at a time, you'll find it's not so bad.  Metro and I are very different players and his strategy is much different than mine.  He's never played a family with this many generations, so it's very different for him.  If it works for him to plot everything out for all the generations, that's great.  But everyone else doesn't necessarily have to do that.  Don't try to manage your game based on what someone else does, unless you happen to find something that really helps you.  But really, just relax and enjoy the challenge.  I was nervous at first, too, but once I got going and saw that these things really aren't impossible, I started to relax and enjoy the game.

I just hope everyone is having fun with it and will spread the word around the intertubes that Carl's Sims 3 has a great Dynasty challenge that everyone MUST play!  Thanks to everyone for picking our brains and helping us get these rules finely tuned.  Have fun!

[NancyJ]

Like many others, I didn't (and still don't) consider CC a cheat or modification. 'Mod' is a very specific term that refers to a patch or set of files that alters key areas of gameplay. CAS items are not mods.

If the 'no cheats or modifications' is supposed to have covered CC then I guess I should be disqualified from this year's tournament and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I've been around the community since Sims 1 and custom content has always been a huge part of the game, whether its unofficial like in Sims 1 & 3 or supported by the developers as in Sims 2. Just the handful it items I created for Sims 3 (20) have gotten over 200k downloads on TSR.

I will continue to play my dynasty for my own enjoyment and post my story elsewhere

[Kilwala]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Pam!

[SimmerAtHeart96]

My first family for the Dynasty was a flop. I'm horrible at strategies, I kind of just jumped in without thinking it through first. Now they're just a family, and I'm going to start over. I'm wiser now, though !
Thanks Pam, for your tips. They'll help a lot.
Oh, I'm so glad this is in your own time. That takes pressure off.
I'm looking forward to starting my family. I absolutely love playing The Sims 3 and all its challenges!!!

-Elice-

[Metropolis Man]

Like many others, I didn't (and still don't) consider CC a cheat or modification. 'Mod' is a very specific term that refers to a patch or set of files that alters key areas of gameplay. CAS items are not mods.

If the 'no cheats or modifications' is supposed to have covered CC then I guess I should be disqualified from this year's tournament and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Nancy, that's crazy. No one is going to disqualify you. Part of this whole problem sits squarely with me. I have never specifically mentioned Custom Content in Tournament rule sets. So, that's my bad. I suppose it has always been implied because of the forum-wide stance on the risks of using CC. So, if you've used CC in the past in challenges, do not worry about it.

@Pam, very well said advice. There's no single "right" way to approach this monster of a challenge.

[Metropolis Man]

Before I have a mob of angry women show up at my door holding "We Want CC" signs, let me think about this a little while longer. The firm stand I took yesterday was primarily to mirror the forum's very cautioned stance on using any kind of 3rd party CC. But, I don't want players thinking me irrational and upset at me either and as long as everyone is made aware of the risks in using CC, then I think we should be okay. Let me think of the wording I want to use to clearly differentiate between CC and mods and I will update the rules later.

I apologize for flip-flopping on this, everyone.  

----------

Okay, here are the relevant rules as they stand now:

• No cheats or modifications* are allowed.
• *Modifications are patches that alter some component of gameplay.
• 3rd party Custom Content that alters appearance such as skin tone or hairstyles, etc. is not considered a modification of the game and can be used at the player's own risk.

Is everyone okay with this?

[Metropolis Man]

I presume Pam is ok with this too ? I guess she is, as you wouldn't dare allow the use of cc genetics/clothes in this challenge without consulting with her right ?

Pam trusts me. She's probably snoozing at the moment so I didn't have a chance to ask her. If she had been online then I certainly would have. I woke up this morning and saw all the new issues players had and the new posts and really felt I had no choice but to make an executive decision right here and now.

EDIT: From an Administrative perspective the most important portion of the new rule that players cannot take lightly is the wording use at your own risk. So, players using CC in their Dynasty need to be fully aware of the inherent dangers in using some CC. Just because I'm allowing CC in the Dynasty, that does not reduce or change the position of the forum on CC — we really do not encourage it. Mods are a different animal altogether and the last couple of days has certainly been an educational experience for me in grasping from many players the difference between the two. So, that's a good thing.

Alright, back your Dynasties, everyone. Have fun!

[Solstice]

EDIT: From an Administrative perspective the most important portion of the new rule that players cannot take lightly is the wording use at your own risk. So, players using CC in their Dynasty need to be fully aware of the inherent dangers in using some CC.

Yes I agree with this Metro, as mentioned in simfu's thread, it is at the player's own risk to use CC. Some CC are bad, some are not. At the end of the day, most players in the community know what's entailed in using cc (and modifications) because most creators give enough information about their cc, including information that they think/know may cause conflict with one's game. It's only lazy or bad creators that release their cc to the community without play testing it first and/or giving enough information about their cc. Thankfully, as the simming community has developed over the years, bad cc is in the minority, due to the vast array of information/tutorials that can now be had from the community about creating your own custom content.

[Saltypaws]

It is funny, I was just telling Metro in an IM, that I had tried to download a sim from the exchange and a notice came up about something and I can't remember.  Anyway, I finally checked around and someone said that you can't download sims that had different skins or hair without some kind of a mesh or mod.  So that was no big deal, so I continued my playing.  When I went into accessories, I noticed a new line and when I clicked on it, it was fingernail polish.  I could not figure out where I got it and finally someone told me, I must have gotten bits and pieces from that sim I tried to download and I think I got some makeup too, but it is hideous, so I don't use it.  That is my only experience with CC.  I
guess I was just never interested enough to download the mesh for other things.  I do know that there are some gorgeous hairstyles out there and will be looking forward to seeing what you guys do with your sims in your stories.  Good luck and have fun, thanks to Metro and all of the suggestions put out there.