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Author Topic: Another World View  (Read 959 times)

eucalypt111

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Another World View
« on: February 14, 2010, 05:50:12 PM »
I am a white Australian.  I became very interested in trying to see the world through some of the lenses of the Yolngu people- particularly the kinship system.  So with some (probably dodgy and incomplete) information I have designed a Sims 3 way to experience some aspects of community living Yolgnu style.  I have been really surprised about what I have learned and how the kinship system in my game has changed what I value for my sims.  All my sims get the "long distance relationship" perk first.

So here goes:

Each family has a clan name which comes from the father.  In my game these are all the names of the in-game fish.  Women take on the clan name of their husband on marriage.  The three clans of most interest to a sim are - the clan of their birth (their father's clan), the clan of their mother, the clan of their husband/wife.  (my sims call anybody without a clan "blowfish"!)

Each person also has a "skin" name which is determined by the skin name of their mother.  There are eight possible skin names.  I have chosen vegetable and fruit names for this purpose.  
tomato will always marry grape, potato will always marry apple, onion will always marry lime, garlic will always marry pepper

A grape mother has lime children, an apple mother has pepper children, a lime mother has apple children, a pepper mother has grape children.
A tomato mother has garlic children, a potato mother has onion children, an onion mother has tomato children and a garlic mother has potato children.

Offline kat

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 06:02:42 PM »
This sounds intriuging...but I am very confused!

eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 06:09:43 PM »
Each clan has their own "country"  This should be a large block on the outskirts of town.  Of course members of the clan may choose to live in town, too, but it is traditional for some clan members, particularly the elders to live "on country".  Fishing and gardening are of particular concern to clan members living "on country".

If a clan wants to marry in a "blowfish" wife the whole of her "blowfish" family are adopted and given skin names based on the skin name of the new husband. E.g. say Bebe Hart is courted by Ben Tomato Herring then Bebe takes the name Bebe Grape Herring and in addition her mother becomes a pepper skin and her father becomes a garlic skin and any other Hart children become Grape skins like Bebe.

It is traditional for brothers and sisters to live seperately once they become teenagers.  It is traditional for all the teenage men from many different clans to live together "on country" (it may be another clan's "country").  It is traditional for mothers-in-law and sons-in-law to avoid one another but without angst and still giving respect.

The family tree is different for clan sims.  This is hard to describe but interesting.  Lets look at Ben Tomato Herrings' family tree.  Ben's father's brothers are his father's.  Ben's mother's sister's are his mother. Ben's siblings are his brothers and sisters.  Ben's father's brother's children are also his brother's.  Ben's mother's sister's children are his sisters.  Ben's mother's brothers are his uncles and his uncle's children are his cousins.   Ben's father's sisters are his aunties and his auntie's children are his cousins. Ben's grandmother's sisters are his grandmas.  Ben's grandfather's brothers are his grandfathers.  This gives a new definition to the term "family".


eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2010, 06:12:55 PM »
Sorry I know this is confusing- it really is another world view- but if you ask me a specific question I will try and answer it.

Offline Pam

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2010, 08:10:07 PM »
There's no need to start a new topic for the next part of your story, Eucalypt, so I merged them together under one subject name.  Please post anything related to your world view story here in this thread.  Thanks!
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Offline wildredchild

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2010, 10:27:40 PM »
This is really very interesting and I am intrigued.  Thank you so much for sharing and I would love to hear more about it.

Offline Pam

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2010, 11:46:28 PM »
Eucalypt,

Yes, this is very interesting and confusing.  I noticed that you didn't always use the correct apostrophe for possessive tense in your description.  I edited it as best I could to help make it more clear, but I don't know if I got it right.  I'm sure everyone would appreciate it if you'd be extra careful with plurals and possessives (using "s" and "'s").  Not knowing if you mean plural or possessive makes it even more confusing.  Thanks!
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eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2010, 12:39:25 AM »
Thanks for all your help Pam.

Offline LivvieLove

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 02:00:04 PM »
Ok, I think... I get this. It's quite hard for someone like me (who gets so confused so easily) to try to grasp something written like that.
Ok,can you please explain the whole Grape marries Pepper thing to me? I'll give you somewhat of a setup.. maybe... If I can figure it out.
Ok... so you have a Tomato man, right? I'm just going to go with it... would the person he marries have to already have the "grape" title? Are they supposed to be vegetables or are you saying that for example purposes? Anyways, or do they gain said grape title... and.. Wait... let me retry the setup with clan names... Ok you have Henry Tomato Deathfish... right? Would he marry another... Deathfish Grape girl... or would he... go to like the Swordfish Clan and find Elma Grape Swordfish and marry her into the Deathfish?
*phew* that is quite a mouthful!

eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2010, 02:52:50 PM »
Dear LivvieLove- the last option is the right one.  Nobody marries their own clan.  So nice Henry has to either find a grape skin girl in another clan or go after a "blowfish".  Say Henry Tomato Deathfish marries Elma Grape Swordfish.  Can you tell me the names of their children?  Incidentally if Henry were to marry a girl of another skin that is called a "wrong skin marriage" and it is taboo.  The clan teaches their children about this very young so it's like we get taught not to think of our brothers and sisters as potential mates.

Here's another tricky question- If Henry has a brother and a sister who are both married and also both have kids what will be Henry's kids relationships with them?

It's kind of a weird concept trying to simulate culture isn't it!

Offline LivvieLove

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 03:04:04 PM »
Dear LivvieLove- the last option is the right one.  Nobody marries their own clan.  So nice Henry has to either find a grape skin girl in another clan or go after a "blowfish".  Say Henry Tomato Deathfish marries Elma Grape Swordfish.  Can you tell me the names of their children?  Incidentally if Henry were to marry a girl of another skin that is called a "wrong skin marriage" and it is taboo.  The clan teaches their children about this very young so its like we get taught not to think of our brothers and sisters as potential mates.

Here's another tricky question- If Henry has a brother and a sister who are both married and also both have kids what will be Henry's kids relationships with them?

It's kind of a weird concept trying to simulate culture isn't it!
Uhhmm Question number 1: The names of the children would be.... Lime... because there mother was a grape... right? Is it based off of what the mother was? I'm pretty sure that I read that correctly, and so they might have 2 kids named Julia Lime Deathfish and Adam Lime Deathfish? Question 2: Would the kid of his brother and sister be brother and sister to his kids?
AHH THIS IS AWESOME! Sorry I love the way this works out... So can guys only be certain things like tomatos, or is the group of kids just going to be the tomato group. So there can also be grape men too?

Offline Pam

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 04:16:42 PM »
I'm curious about how these names get put on various people.  Are you taking the existing townies (like Gunther Goth and Agnes Crumplebottom) and giving them new names to fit in with this culture?  Are you controlling the whole town at one point or another?
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eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 05:37:47 PM »
In my game, I can't afford to have story progression on because I don't want any moving away.  I sometimes have aging on and sometimes not.  I swap active households often.

If one of my clan Sims married Agnes Crumplebottom I would take her to the town hall and give her the appropriate skin name and her married name would be the clan name.  If Agnes had relatives, like the Goths, I would work backwards and give them all skin names too.  Here's how it would go:

Ben Lime Swordfish marries Agnes Crumplebottom.  She becomes Agnes Onion Swordfish.  Her sister (Gunter Goth's wife) becomes Onion as well.  So Mortimer Goth becomes Mortimer Tomato Goth.  It is important for the clan sims to do this so they know where everyone fits.  (Mortimer would still be a "blowfish" because he has no clan name but he would be "out of bounds" for any clan sim except a Grape skin).

And LivvieLove, you were absolutely correct!

Offline Pam

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2010, 08:53:08 PM »
If a clan wants to marry in a "blowfish" wife the whole of her "blowfish" family are adopted and given skin names based on the skin name of the new husband. E.g. say Bebe Hart is courted by Ben Tomato Herring then Bebe takes the name Bebe Grape Herring and in addition her mother becomes a pepper skin and her father becomes a garlic skin and any other Hart children become Grape skins like Bebe.

I managed to follow all of this bit except for Bebe's father becoming a garlic skin.  Where does that part come from?

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Offline LivvieLove

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2010, 11:06:02 PM »
AHH SWEET!! I WINN!! *does little dance to celebrate*
Not to ask too many questions but I never understood what you had said about moving certain sims out like Sisters and aunts or what not. Guys and Girls...

Offline wildredchild

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 11:10:05 PM »
If a clan wants to marry in a "blowfish" wife the whole of her "blowfish" family are adopted and given skin names based on the skin name of the new husband. E.g. say Bebe Hart is courted by Ben Tomato Herring then Bebe takes the name Bebe Grape Herring and in addition her mother becomes a pepper skin and her father becomes a garlic skin and any other Hart children become Grape skins like Bebe.

I managed to follow all of this bit except for Bebe's father becoming a garlic skin.  Where does that part come from?



Pam, it has something to do with the fact that Bebe becomes a Grape skin and only certain 'skins' have specific offspring.  I think I have this figured out and like the OP said, it is a little hard to describe.

eucalypt111

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 12:24:32 AM »
Well you can work backwards as well as forwards in assigning skin names.  Working backwards if Bebe is grape then it follows that her mother is pepper (since pepper women have grape children) and Bebe's father has married a pepper skin so he must be a garlic skin.

Incidentally my clan sims get endless pleasure from sitting around their fire-pits and discussing genealogies and suitable marriages and the latest gossip about the antics of the "blowfish" who are very sad (in the eyes of the clan) because they have so little family and such boring family trees  ::)  Oh and most adult sims know which children their son or daughter can choose from for a marriage partner.  You can be sure they watch their neighbours keenly to see how the prospective son or daughter in law is turning out.

Also my clan sims like to tease each other using their skin names- eg slaps other sim on back and says "ah you old potato skin" or "you cute little tomato".

Another thing which I have found interesting is that for the clan obtaining extra blowfish women is very desirable however losing clan girls to blowfish guys is not so hot.  No clan mother wants a blowfish son-in-law!  The problem with blowfish son-in-laws is that they do not really comprehend the web of relationships they are marrying into.  They don't give proper respect to their father-in-laws and they are offensively "in the face" of their mother-in-laws and they may not properly train their children.

My founding sim Ruby Grape Anchovy (who over-emotional, family oriented and blue coloured) is still alive and awaiting the birth of her great great granddaughters.  She is very keenly aware that they will be grape skins like her.  It really fried my brain when I read that in the Yolgnu people's system my founding sim would be called the "sister" of her great great granddaughter due to the same skin name.  I'm sure they must get a huge kick out of confusing any non-Yolgnu people with that one!  I was trying to work out how old each generation would be (in the real world) to make this a possibility but my maths is as bad as my punctuation lolz.

Offline LivvieLove

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Re: Another World View
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 04:01:19 PM »
Oh... this is so awesome! I would really like to try this. (I love other cultures and studying and trying a new way of living out). I'm going to go see if I can start one. :)