Career Couples' Grand Slam Challenge

[TheCub]

Please add me to the leader board. I've been looking forward to this challenge since it was first announced. I'll start this one as soon as I finish the nectar challenge. (Only 3 more days to go on that one!)
 
I have a pretty good idea of the traits I'm going to choose for both of my sims. I already have four careers planned for one sim but I still have to choose among five careers for the other one. And I have a plan to improve their chances of finishing at the same time.

[Metropolis Man]

Well, folks, it would appear that tragedy has befallen Pam's female Sim in this challenge. I was just informed of this while both of us were IMing on Yahoo. I've edited some of the following transcript, but kept the relevant portions:

pammarsden: Ok.  My female Sim in the challenge just drowned.
schluetertom: Good god, Pam. What the heck?
pammarsden: Well, she went swimming to relax.  The got into a splashing contest with I think Mortimer Goth.  He didn't just splash her once like they usually do.  He used both hands and splashed tons of water on her, acting really hateful.  After 3 or 4 times of this, she drowned and went under the water.. Grim came to take her.
schluetertom: Wow.
pammarsden: I've never had this happen.
schluetertom: That's just unbelievable and should definitely not happen.
pammarsden: She wouldn't respond to my commands.  I tried to cancel her swimming action and click the ladder hoping she would go to it, but it was too late and she was already drowning.
pammarsden: She had just started her 3rd career.
pammarsden: So, I guess I have to withdraw from the challenge.
schluetertom: Normally I'd say you should never go back to a previous save. And we should ask for others opinions as well. But, I'm wondering if doing that should be allowed in this case.
pammarsden: That would be the only way I could continue.  I'd been saving pretty often, so I wouldn't have to lose much of my game play.  But otherwise, I'm done because my Sim is dead.
schluetertom: Okay. As of now don't play any more. You're halted until we can get feedback from some other competitors. I'm assuming she was not tired at all, correct?
pammarsden: No, she was fine.  She hadn't been working out or anything.  She just had some free time because she had the hardly hungry reward and didn't have to cook or eat that night.  She was stressed, and I sent her to the pool to have some fun and relax.

So, there it is in black and white. What I'm trying to wrestle with as the person who ultimately needs to make the final decision as to whether or not Pam should be allowed to restart from a previous save is a) is the drowning to be viewed as a natural (albeit extremely rare) occurrence in this game, or b) should this have never happened and falls under the umbrella of a bug?

I need lots of feedback and specifically told Pam that she is not to participate in the discussion today. Forget that Pam is a site Admin. That cannot enter into my decision and I know Pam does not want that to be the case. I just need to be fair and want to know from everyone their thinking on this matter. Thank you. I'll make my decision by the end of the day.

[wildredchild]

My mistake in putting 10 and not 11 career choices.  I am very sorry for the typo.

As to Pam's situation, that is a total fluke and I feel she should go back to a previous save and continue in the challenge.  Just my 2 cents.

[samoht04]

I think as long as you save recently and your sim dies, you should be able to go back, but only if you won't loose to much game play which you could change how you did it etc.

In simple talk that is 'Pam should be allowed to reload' 

[Metropolis Man]

Jane and John finished up just now at Week 9, Day 3, so I've set the bar. I botched up the end a little so I'm confident I won't remain on top too long. John ended up completing 8 Opportunities and Jane knocked out 12 Career Opportunities...so 20 between the two of them.

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I think as long as you save recently and your sim dies, you should be able to go back, but only if you won't loose to much game play which you could change how you did it etc.

That's not really the issue. What's being discussed is the circumstances in which her Sim died.

[meamalso2]

No problem wildredchild, just wanted to make sure I was not making bad plans.

As for Pam, I would ask 2 questions: 1) How long ago was the save? 2) Where there any missed promotions/oppertunities in that time? If it was only a few days and she has not missed any promotions or opportunities I would let her go back without any further delay. If Pam did miss anything then I would require she misses them the second time.

I don't want to see people getting left out because their game does something stupid. As long as they have a recent save, are honest about their progress since the save, and do not take advantage of the problem; I say, let them fix the the problem and finish the challenge. My 2 cents (or 5).

[TheCub]

As far as I know, the only reasons for drowning should be if a sim is tired or fatigued. Neither of those seems to be the case here. It sounds like a bug to me.

I've played other challenges where cheats are generally not allowed, but they can be used if necessary to recover from a bug or glitch. For example, in my apocalypse challenge an NPC who married into the family aged up twice in one day. After trying everything I could think of to fix it, I was forced to use the debug gardening cheat so he could eat life fruit to keep from aging up the second time. It was against the rules but it was the only thing I could do that fixed the bug.

Restarting from a previous save may be technically against the rules but it should be OK if she's just doing it to get around a bug. If she's only losing a day or two of gameplay it's not the same as starting over from the beginning.

[LenaLJ]

Great finish Metro.

About Pam - i would say if she goes back and tries to play her game so close to what she did before (besides of drowing) its okay to go back to her savegame. Then i think that no one can be save for a glitch out there so its fair enough to go back.

[Metropolis Man]

The big thing right now that is preventing me from just telling Pam to restart from her previous save is we don't actually know if something like this is a game feature — a ridiculously rare feature, but still something that has a chance of occurring. It very well might be a bug and should not happen. That's what I need players to comment on — whether or not they feel something like this is a feature. Does anyone remember when my Zeus character was electrocuted in the nectar challenge while repairing a nectar machine? He was Handy. So, I didn't even think that should be possible. But, it did. So, is something like that a bug or would it be deemed a very rare possibility? That's kind of what I'm getting at here. Same thing.

[samoht04]

If there is something about your sim which would make the event unusual or wierd like your Zeus and being Handy or Pams character drowning with full energy and not fatigued, then maybe that should be an exception but they must contact you through PM?

[AriaGirl77]

That totally sounds like a game glitch to me and not a normal feature of the game.  How crazy!

PS: I finally started this challenge yesterday, having no troubles with my female sim, but my male just seems slow and sluggish for some reason!  Can't quite figure it out. 

[Metropolis Man]

I just PM'd Pam and asked to be emailed an older save file to see if I can recreate the incident.

[Schipperke]

Martha & Mojo McSchipperke (yah, I know, lame names but they're named for my rescue dogs) just finished their challenge.  Week 8, day 6.  A total of 17 career opportunities.  One career yielded 4 opps, one none at all.  Talk about obsessive playing on my part.  Time to catch up on whatever life matters have been neglected.  This was fun!  Good luck to all those still working.

[Metropolis Man]

Ha ha. Schipperke, you obviously have been doing as much as I have in the last 3 days — which is nothing but playing this challenge! Nice job. I think anything in Week 8 is going to be a great score for someone.

[samoht04]

Okay, I have chosen the careers I will pursue, they will follow a rough guide line, but now the trait choosing pat   Now to get playing!

I think my total score will be around 10 weeks but I will be very suprised if i get below that! 

[Schipperke]

I think Mojo & Martha could  have done better (by a day or two) if I had figured out a certain strategy earlier in the game.  But they managed to finish within an hour of each other. 

Re Pam's situation:  I definitely think she should be able to go back to her last save and carry on.

[samoht04]

Okay so both Elena and Harry are at level 3 in their careers, Harry almost level 4 and I added an adition to the family, they Adopted a Child called Jacob! Money is okay, they only have about two thousand but they do the best stove  

With the Opportunities are they like 'Your Colleagues would appreciate it if you stayed behind' or you attend some business meeting etc? I have had a few opportunities come up but no Career related ones, I just want to be sure so I don't click the X on them!  

[Metropolis Man]

With the Oppertunities are they like 'Your Collegues would appreciate it if you stayed behind' or you attend some business meeting etc? I have had a few oppertunities come up but no Career related ones, I just want to be sure so I don't click the X on them! 

Sometimes it's a little confusing distinguishing a Career Opportunity from a Skill one because the graphic looks identical. I think that's the case for Cooking and Athletic. You just need to make sure you read the description and then that will give you all the clues — almost every Career Opportunity will mention something about a performance boost.

[Margerita]

Regarding the issue with Pams female sim, it is fine with me if she goes back to an earlier save.

My sims have barely begun, they are on their first careers and are currently on vacation number one since one career oportunity my female sim got required her going to china. Both sims are currently using the time gain needed skills and getting some visa to gain more vacation time for later dates hehe.

[samoht04]

Okay thanks Metro! Just curious as to whether anyone else has either had kids or adopted for their sims? I adopted a Child and he is currently A+ or whatever it is! I should get a bonus point for that  , probably won't though!

[Metropolis Man]

Okay thanks Metro! Just curious as to whether anyone else has either had kids or adopted for their sims?

Not me. With the upcoming Baby Boomer II Challenge I wanted to steer very far away from any children in this one.

[Schipperke]

With the Oppertunities are they like 'Your Collegues would appreciate it if you stayed behind' or you attend some business meeting etc? I have had a few oppertunities come up but no Career related ones, I just want to be sure so I don't click the X on them! 

Sometimes it's a little confusing distinguishing a Career Opportunity from a Skill one because the graphic looks identical. I think that's the case for Cooking and Athletic. You just need to make sure you read the description and then that will give you all the clues — almost every Career Opportunity will mention something about a performance boost.

If you're not sure whether it's a Career Opportunity or a Skill  one, you can accept it and then check the Opportunities tab to see where it is.  If it's a Skill opportunity that you don't want to do, just delete it.

[NancyJ]

In my experience 'death by misadventure' is very difficult in Sims 3. I've only had 1 Sim die that wasn't natural causes, and it was my fault. He was repairing the computer and got zapped and I made him try again without getting a shower first. I've never had a Sim die due to bad luck, which I think is intentional on the part of the game developers. Its just not that sort of game.
My opinion is that even if this is a rare 'feature' (which I really doubt) Pam should be allowed to reload a previous save. Bad luck can really dent your score but to have it completely wipe out your game with an event that (if it happened as described) really could not have been predicted. I don't feel that this Sim's death was due to poor strategising on Pam's part. Unless the sim was in a bad state already or had a really bad relationship with Mortimer, I don't think Pam should be penalised for something that I don't think any of us has seen or experienced before, especially if she's saved recently and therefore wont be gaining any major advantage by replaying that small part of the game.

[TylerDurden]

Well, folks, it would appear that tragedy has befallen Pam's female Sim in this challenge. I was just informed of this while both of us were IMing on Yahoo. I've edited some of the following transcript, but kept the relevant portions:

pammarsden: Ok.  My female Sim in the challenge just drowned.
schluetertom: Good god, Pam. What the heck?
pammarsden: Well, she went swimming to relax.  The got into a splashing contest with I think Mortimer Goth.  He didn't just splash her once like they usually do.  He used both hands and splashed tons of water on her, acting really hateful.  After 3 or 4 times of this, she drowned and went under the water.. Grim came to take her.
schluetertom: Wow.
pammarsden: I've never had this happen.
schluetertom: That's just unbelievable and should definitely not happen.
pammarsden: She wouldn't respond to my commands.  I tried to cancel her swimming action and click the ladder hoping she would go to it, but it was too late and she was already drowning.
pammarsden: She had just started her 3rd career.
pammarsden: So, I guess I have to withdraw from the challenge.
schluetertom: Normally I'd say you should never go back to a previous save. And we should ask for others opinions as well. But, I'm wondering if doing that should be allowed in this case.
pammarsden: That would be the only way I could continue.  I'd been saving pretty often, so I wouldn't have to lose much of my game play.  But otherwise, I'm done because my Sim is dead.
schluetertom: Okay. As of now don't play any more. You're halted until we can get feedback from some other competitors. I'm assuming she was not tired at all, correct?
pammarsden: No, she was fine.  She hadn't been working out or anything.  She just had some free time because she had the hardly hungry reward and didn't have to cook or eat that night.  She was stressed, and I sent her to the pool to have some fun and relax.

So, there it is in black and white. What I'm trying to wrestle with as the person who ultimately needs to make the final decision as to whether or not Pam should be allowed to restart from a previous save is a) is the drowning to be viewed as a natural (albeit extremely rare) occurrence in this game, or b) should this have never happened and falls under the umbrella of a bug?

I need lots of feedback and specifically told Pam that she is not to participate in the discussion today. Forget that Pam is a site Admin. That cannot enter into my decision and I know Pam does not want that to be the case. I just need to be fair and want to know from everyone their thinking on this matter. Thank you. I'll make my decision by the end of the day.

I have never liked this ONE SHOT aspect of the tournament rules... My suggestion would be for ONE POSTED SCORE.  The honor system suggests that you complete it once and let that score stand, but to suggest that if something goes wrong, you are hosed for that challenge seems much more critical and harsh than it needs to be.

My perspective would be for Pam to be able to reload her game if it was saved, or to restart again clean with no conscience issues as she had yet to post a score.  I don't have any problem with people playing a scenario several times before they make their medal run, but once you post your score, there it will stand.

[Metropolis Man]

I have never liked this ONE SHOT aspect of the tournament rules... My suggestion would be for ONE POSTED SCORE.

I'm not up for suggestions, Tyler. When you begin a challenge for real, that's it. Game on. Practice is over.
 

The honor system suggests that you complete it once and let that score stand, but to suggest that if something goes wrong, you are hosed for that challenge seems much more critical and harsh than it needs to be.

"Suggests" is the key word there. It would be nice if everyone did that. But, that's one of the reasons why it has to be spelled out. And not everything is black and white. Just like this situation with Pam. It dictates some leniency and flexibility on my part.

I don't have any problem with people playing a scenario several times before they make their medal run, but once you post your score, there it will stand.

Well, we don't think any differently then really. I've never cared if players practice ahead of time. The "One Shot" terminology I use that you don't care for is essentially what you call the medal run. Same thing. To clarify things though in the next rule set I think I will mention that practicing is okay, just so players are not confused.

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EDIT: I went ahead and modified the One Attempt rule just so everyone is on the same page. I hope it's more clear now.

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EDIT 2: I made a passing comment to my wife just now during dinner about what happened to Pam's character. She commented that maybe it was because the Sim was completely frazzled and stressed out from work. I'm going to try and duplicate this with my own career couple since they're done. Playing Pam's file would be better, but if I can duplicate it, then that will at least tell me it's a game feature and not a fluke.